Pan's People on Top of the Pops

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Re: Pan's People on Top of the Pops

VintageVideos
According to Popscene, the Union Gap never appeared in the TOTP studio. Instead a video was shown. This is quite probable as the Union Gap were an American band. So I assume that Dee Dee may not have been quoted correctly.
First impressions are lasting impressions
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Re: Pan's People on Top of the Pops

PansLegs
I see mention of the lost routine Bridget The Midget over on the old PP.com here:-
http://www.panspeople.com/?q=node/859&page=1

Looking at popscene only narrows it down to three dates as none of these editions list a PP performance - 18/3, 25/3 & 8/4/71
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Re: Pan's People on Top of the Pops

VintageVideos
Digging into March/April 1971, there is another entry in the list which is worth considering. Until now, we've had "Walkin'" by CCS as the Pan's People dance for 01/04/1971 - the studio dance that is. The old and now defunct BBC database did indeed list "Walkin'" for that date - but as a video (which was unusual for a PP performance).

For quite a while I have been pondering over the possibility that the routine for the 01/04/1971 was actually the film that was shot on the HMS London and mentioned in the book on page 99 and 103 (picture). The problem with this theory is that the book says the film was shot in May - too late for TOTP! Yet the book also says that "a Top of the Pops item involving Pan's People" was filmed. Now if that was the aforementioned "Walkin'" and the date May 1971 was correct, this would have made no sense whatsoever. I mean, "Walkin'" was rapidly going down the charts in May, so why should they make a film of it? That's why I'm wondering if the date could actually have been March instead of May?!

If the date was actually March 1971, then - I guess - the video shown on 01/04/1971 would have been the one mentioned in the book. Now that would of course mean that the existing studio performance was shown on either 11/03 or 18/03/1971 (it seems that the performance from 31/12/1970 was repeated on 25/03/1971). As we already have "Another Day" for 11/03/1971, that would leave 18/03/1971 as the most probable date (which, in turn, would further narrow down the possible dates for "Bridget The Midget").
Any thoughts on this?
First impressions are lasting impressions
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Re: Pan's People on Top of the Pops

VintageVideos
In reply to this post by PansLegs
PansLegs wrote
I see mention of the lost routine Bridget The Midget over on the old PP.com here:-
http://www.panspeople.com/?q=node/859&page=1

Looking at popscene only narrows it down to three dates as none of these editions list a PP performance - 18/3, 25/3 & 8/4/71
The old BBC database listed "Bridget The Midget" as a repeat on 08/04/1971 which could mean that the PP performance from 25/03 was repeated two weeks later.
First impressions are lasting impressions
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Re: Pan's People on Top of the Pops

PansLegs
In reply to this post by VintageVideos
I didn't realise there was confusion with Walkin... the studio performance was definitely seen on the 18/3/71 edition and it followed Barry Ryan.
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Re: Pan's People on Top of the Pops

VintageVideos
Thanks... that's the kind of comment I was hoping for

What about 01/04/1971 then? Was the film shot on the HMS London shown on that episode?
And wouldn't that mean that "Bridget The Midget" was most probably (first) featured on the 25/03/1971?
First impressions are lasting impressions
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Re: Pan's People on Top of the Pops

PansLegs
In my haste to answer using the grey matter only, it was in fact Atomic Rooster that Pans followed not Barry Ryan, but the same episode anyway. I see that Popscene don't even list a Pans performance for the existing 25/2/71 edition!

As for the film version of Walkin', I don't  have any concrete information on that.
But do we know if CCS ever performed this in the studio themselves? Why does Popscene have repeat against 25/3/71?
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Re: Pan's People on Top of the Pops

VintageVideos
PansLegs wrote
But do we know if CCS ever performed this in the studio themselves? Why does Popscene have repeat against 25/3/71?
The old BBC database (again) had "Alexis Korner, Peter Thorup & CCS" perform "Walkin'" in the studio on 31/12/1970 ("Into 71"). The same database listed "Walkin'" on 25/03/1971 as a repeat. As both 11/03 and 18/03 were listed as "disc", the repeated performance was most probably the one from "Into 71". Well, that's my theory anyway. Of course, it is also possible that the PP routine from 18/03/1971 was repeated, but I can't see PP dancing to the same song for three consecutive weeks (18/03, 25/03, 01/04).
First impressions are lasting impressions
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Re: Pan's People on Top of the Pops

PansLegs
VintageVideos wrote
PansLegs wrote
But do we know if CCS ever performed this in the studio themselves? Why does Popscene have repeat against 25/3/71?
The old BBC database (again) had "Alexis Korner, Peter Thorup & CCS" perform "Walkin'" in the studio on 31/12/1970 ("Into 71"). The same database listed "Walkin'" on 25/03/1971 as a repeat. As both 11/03 and 18/03 were listed as "disc", the repeated performance was most probably the one from "Into 71". Well, that's my theory anyway. Of course, it is also possible that the PP routine from 18/03/1971 was repeated, but I can't see PP dancing to the same song for three consecutive weeks (18/03, 25/03, 01/04).
Was they really a 3 month gap between performing the number and it charting? Your theory sounds very likely as I don't believe there were any consecutive repeats of a Pans routine, not counting the snippets of Barbados version 1.
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Re: Pan's People on Top of the Pops

VintageVideos
"Walkin'" is a non-album track (and, incidentally, a Donovan song). The single was released in January 1971 (according to 45cat). It may even be possible that CCS first performed it on "Into 71" and that performance generated demand for the track to be released. That's a bit speculative though.
The single charted on 27/02/71. Before that, it had spent one week on the breakers chart. Let's not forget that there was a postal strike in February 1971, which is why the charts were cut down to a Top 40 instead of a Top 50 from 06/02/71 on. The record was a slow climber and needed seven weeks from its Top 40 entrance to its peak of No. 7 on 10/04/71.

PansLegs wrote
Your theory sounds very likely as I don't believe there were any consecutive repeats of a Pans routine, not counting the snippets of Barbados version 1.
The BBC database listed "Homely Girl" for both the 04/04/74 and the 11/04/74. That's not very likely though - but not impossible either.
First impressions are lasting impressions
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Re: Pan's People on Top of the Pops

Mikey
In reply to this post by PansLegs
PansLegs wrote
Doc wrote
Pan's made an appearance with Clive Dunn, unlikely to be any dancing but it is a performance all the same.
Clive appeared on TOTP
10/12/70 wiped
07/01/71 wiped
14/01/71 exists in the BBC archive
21/01/71 wiped, listed as video.
Pan's don't appear in the surviving footage so that counts out 14/01.
As the 14th Jan appearance is a repeat from the 7th, I would say the first date is most likely to have involved Pan's People.


Looks like the Clive Dunn/Pans (possibly Louise in the pic) was on a Tony Blackburn show
♥♥♥♥ Cherry, Louise, Patti and Ruth Alliance ♥♥♥♥

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Re: Pan's People on Top of the Pops

VintageVideos
The bottom picture must be from 07/01/71 as the two guys standing next to Tony Blackburn are Dennis Coulson & Hughie Flint from McGuinness Flint. The only show on which both McGuinness Flint and Clive Dunn appeared was 07/01/71!
With 14/01/71 being a repeat of 07/01/71, the top picture has to be from a different show. I'd favour 10/12/70.
First impressions are lasting impressions
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Re: Pan's People on Top of the Pops

PansLegs
I agree... the costume match doesn't help here as it was the same on all appearances.

It's an odd one as I can't really picture Pans' People mouthing the "Grandad we love..." bits of the song like the girls do in the existing footage. It seems they must have done though, which for me is another reason for saying it was the first appearance and after that then decided that it was more appropriate for non-identifiable people in the children's roles plus Pans were needed for other dance duties anyway.
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Re: Pan's People on Top of the Pops

PansLegs
That's the wrong lyric of course, it's "Grandad, you're lovely" - I was thinking of that awful early 80s thing! Or was it late 70s?
Doc
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Re: Pan's People on Top of the Pops

Doc
Christmas 80! [Spoiler] It's coming very soon, or at least it should have been but I think the Christmas 80 shows are on the Yewtree scrap heap.
Sandy Borne and Tricia Roberts Appreciation Society
Doc
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Re: Pan's People on Top of the Pops

Doc
In reply to this post by VintageVideos
Clive's just been presented with a Gold record, so it won't be the earlier appearance as it wouldn't have sold enough records then.
Sandy Borne and Tricia Roberts Appreciation Society
Doc
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Re: Pan's People on Top of the Pops

Doc
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by VintageVideos
One thing I've noticed is in the video Clive's scarf is very unevenly tied. On his right hand side it is very short and it's long on the left hand side. In the first picture it is very even. Whilst it is not conclusive from the picture it looks fairly even when he is with Tony (of course he may have adjusted it). The bit around his neck looks different in the video as well, more creased.
Also his left sleeve appears to be rolled further up his arm in the video than it is in the pictures (again subject to adjustment).
The photographer Ron Howard's pictures on Getty tend to suggest that he was an occasional visitor to the studio which makes it more likely he took them the same day.
I would suggest that the video and the TB picture could be from different appearances.
Sandy Borne and Tricia Roberts Appreciation Society
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Re: Pan's People on Top of the Pops

PansLegs
I must admit you make some good points about the scarf.
Doc
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Re: Pan's People on Top of the Pops

Doc
Dressed differently in this one


I saw an obituary for Clive stating that he appeared on TOTP 4 times.
Sandy Borne and Tricia Roberts Appreciation Society
Doc
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Re: Pan's People on Top of the Pops

Doc
This post was updated on .
Ron was stalking Clive! (from the surviving performance).
Clive appears to have a different shirt on, it is still striped though.
Sandy Borne and Tricia Roberts Appreciation Society
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