The Influence Of Two Choreographers On Each Other.

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The Influence Of Two Choreographers On Each Other.

sueforever
A few days ago I saw Arlene Phillips on TV, being interview by Lorraine Kelly. They started to speaking about Hot Gossip. And thought how different her dance troupe, they were at the time. I think that they over egged the importance of this troupe. We have two amazing ladies choreography in these two dance troupes. So how much influence did Flick have on Arlene. And Arlene have on Flick. You can see a lot of influence on both ladies. I think you have similar type of person very professional. And two  very fine dancers and choreographers. Trying to do new things in dance. So Sue if you are about, it would interesting to listen to a professional dancer view point on this subject.      
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Re: The Influence Of Two Choreographers On Each Other.

Everything'sRosie
I would say both influenced the other. Flick certainly did the groundwork by popularising dance troupes for a modern pop audience in the first place, but then Arlene Phillips took the concept and made them saucier (though largely joyless) when Hot Gossip started appearing on the Kenny Everett Show. This certainly influenced Flick to experiment with Legs and Co and do more sultry routines such as I Ain't Gonna Stand For It, and even more so with Ai No Corrida. Legs were always way classier than Hot Gossip though.
Queens of My Soul
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Re: The Influence Of Two Choreographers On Each Other.

mojo2007
You put your finger on a vital difference,  I never saw HG  as  joyful. Hills Angels did at least try to be funny, but for sheer  getting fun out of life, Flick was in a class of her own.   Mind you, she did have a  joyful group of dancers in the first place.
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Re: The Influence Of Two Choreographers On Each Other.

Old Grey Whistler
I don't think either had much influence on the other. They were two strong women who knew what they wanted to do and went out and did it.  Although I agree that Legs and Co routines got more daring in their later years, I think that was just inevitable as the girls got older and more confident.  I'm not sure that it would have been possible for the rookie dancers to have made a success of Ai No Corrida  had they performed it in 1976.
Perhaps if Ruby Flipper had of continued for longer then they would have been in more direct competition with Hot Gossip.
Without Legs & Co, there would be no show!
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Re: The Influence Of Two Choreographers On Each Other.

PattiForPM
Yes I see Flick and Arlene as being very aware of each other but I'm not sure there was much cross-pollination really.  For on thing Flick had to cater to the TOTP Audience and the Charts under severe time pressure whereas Arlene had a different direction and I presume no musical limitations most of the time.  I can appreciate both their bodies of work but I am charmed by only one of the two Troupes
Some Dancers who gave a good time, broke all the rules, played all the fools, yeah yeah yeah they blew our minds
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Re: The Influence Of Two Choreographers On Each Other.

CoffeeThing
This post was updated on .
It is the joy factor isn't it? I had never thought of it that way before. Flick's troupes are welcomingly friendly and inclusive of their audience, whereas HG are playing to the audience. Both good, but the fuzzy warmth inside comes only with the former.
This week, I are be mostly watching Christmas movies
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Re: The Influence Of Two Choreographers On Each Other.

PattiForPM
We need the SuPaLu input here for balance's sake
Some Dancers who gave a good time, broke all the rules, played all the fools, yeah yeah yeah they blew our minds
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Re: The Influence Of Two Choreographers On Each Other.

Sue Menhenick
In reply to this post by PattiForPM
Well Sueforever, in answer to your question reFlick and Arlene......
PAttiForPM has actually hit the nail on the head ...... he quite rightly says, 'there was no  cross pollinating' ( interesting turn of phrase there Doc !!) but actually very accurate.
The restrictions of working on and for a light entertainment that aired well before 9.00 pm cannot be compared to another show, with NO restrictions on dance, choreography costume and content and anything goes . It's chalk and cheese and very different shows.

Choreograhically, Flick and Arlene were very different dancers which they carried over to their choreography. Humour and warmth were always there in Flicks work, and even if the songs were sad, she approached them with some thought and sensitivity and I personally feel that more variety was there but also expected from Flick considering the type of show TOTPs was ..... check out Pattis performance, in 'You Don't Bring Me Flowers.
There was always light and shade to Flicks work .....

Kenny Everett and HG ....full on no holds barred. Pretty much in your face, leaving not a lot to the imagination with the routines and costumes .... not a lot of humour, warmth or smiling from the  performance ...... but their image was more about  shocking people  anyway. Probably in the same way that Punk tried to give the bad boy attitude and let's shock the system ........ Some said it was very domamtrix feel to Arlenes choreography for them.
Pans and Legs in cabaret could be just as saucy and raunchy but with smiles on their faces because it felt good and was fun ....no rules and regulations to adhere to as in TOTPs because it just wasn't what they wanted ........ we were always made aware of the wide range of people and age groups who tuned in to watch ......
Both choreographers knew each other , of course they did, but there was never any collusion of work, thoughts of ideas........their styles  were poles apart ...... they both portrayed different images of their dance groups ..... and they were very different women.

I heard someone once say it was a bit like marmite ...(?!!)  you either like the scary look and hard faced performance, or the ....they are having a good time and smiling to show it  performance ......it's personal taste.

At the end of the day ....it's all about the performance and what comes across to the viewer ....you either like the hard core look, or perhaps the girl next door look ...... people are entitled to chose for themselves .......

Both groups broke boundaries in their own way

On a lighter note .... and a bit cheeky ...... but can any of you seriously picture the Smurf Song being performed by HG, dressed up as Smurfs, but wearing their style statement of old ripped black leather, bondage , straps, suspenders, fishnets and handcuffs , whips and chains ?
No ....... I didn't thinks so .........besides ...Pappa Smurf  didn't have the legs for suspenders, ....wouldn't look right and could never live it down !  πŸ˜πŸ˜‰




Doc
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Re: The Influence Of Two Choreographers On Each Other.

Doc
Sue Menhenick wrote
On a lighter note .... and a bit cheeky ...... but can any of you seriously picture the Smurf Song being performed by HG, dressed up as Smurfs, but wearing their style statement of old ripped black leather, bondage , straps, suspenders, fishnets and handcuffs , whips and chains ?
No ....... I didn't thinks so .........besides ...Pappa Smurf  didn't have the legs for suspenders, ....wouldn't look right and could never live it down !  πŸ˜πŸ˜‰
 I can but it's a hilarious image!
Sandy Borne and Tricia Roberts Appreciation Society
Doc
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Re: The Influence Of Two Choreographers On Each Other.

Doc
In reply to this post by Everything'sRosie
Everything'sRosie wrote
Legs were always way classier than Hot Gossip though.
Exactly what I used to think (and still do).
Sandy Borne and Tricia Roberts Appreciation Society
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Re: The Influence Of Two Choreographers On Each Other.

Sue Menhenick
In reply to this post by Doc
Hahaha Doc ! Sorry .... but I am left with a very uneasy image of that now !! πŸ˜ΆπŸ€—

Thank you for that kind comment ....Flick would be chuffed to hear that ! πŸ˜‰
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Re: The Influence Of Two Choreographers On Each Other.

Rosie'sNumberOneFan
In reply to this post by Sue Menhenick
Sue Menhenick wrote
At the end of the day ....it's all about the performance and what comes across to the viewer ....you either like the hard core look, or perhaps the girl next door look ...... people are entitled to chose for themselves .......
Can I choose both?

Thanks for a great explanation Sue
When Rosie flares her nostrils

I go weak!
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Re: The Influence Of Two Choreographers On Each Other.

PattiForPM
Begone bad thoughts

Some Dancers who gave a good time, broke all the rules, played all the fools, yeah yeah yeah they blew our minds
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Re: The Influence Of Two Choreographers On Each Other.

Sue Menhenick
😱😱   Eewww! PattiForPM  !! πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚
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Re: The Influence Of Two Choreographers On Each Other.

PattiForPM
Sorry Sue.  Just focus on the calming Chi Mai Header Ryan created and all will be right in the World
Some Dancers who gave a good time, broke all the rules, played all the fools, yeah yeah yeah they blew our minds
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Re: The Influence Of Two Choreographers On Each Other.

SuPaLu
This post was updated on .
Arlene Phillips was influenced by the American jazz dancing taught by Molly Molloy.I don't know Flick's influences but we all know that on TOTP she worked under the constraints of light entertainment.
Although much is made of Hot Gossip's sexiness,Legs & Co were no strangers to a bikini or a pair of stockings.The real difference i think was attitude,great sets and outrageous clothes.They were free from the light entertainment rule of smiling constantly at the camera which Arlene has said struck her as false.I know what smiling is meant to convey to the audience and i do like it,but it doesn't lessen Hot Gossip's performance whenever they don't smile;it doesn't make it harder for me to connect with a Hot Gossip dancer.
The question of joy and fun is an interesting one.It is true that on a superficial level there is more fun and joy in something like 'The Smurf Song'(which i love) than in 'Walk On The Wild Side'.I can find joy in appreciating the choreography and technique of the dancer with a bit of 'fire in the eyes',as Dominique Wood put it,rather than constant smiles to camera.
Choreographers and dancers are there to entertain.They may do it in very different ways but the final result is the same.I find most dances interesting on different levels,and i can find joy and fun in most dances.That's what it's all about in the end.
Glenn
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Re: The Influence Of Two Choreographers On Each Other.

sueforever
In reply to this post by sueforever
Thank you very much for answering my question Sue, it was so kind of you.
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Re: The Influence Of Two Choreographers On Each Other.

PattiForPM
In reply to this post by SuPaLu
Those Isobars are looking awfully close together over the NW
Some Dancers who gave a good time, broke all the rules, played all the fools, yeah yeah yeah they blew our minds
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Re: The Influence Of Two Choreographers On Each Other.

CoffeeThing
Yes, thanks Sue, really interesting, though I shall never view The Smurfs or old blokes with white beards comfortably ever again thanks to you! Think Uncle Albert from Only Fools!  

If I might ask for interest, back in '83 when you, Lulu, Patti and the new ladies appeared on telly seeking a new name for the troupe, was that related to the raunchier cabaret sets and wanting something a little more removed from the cosy TOTP image, and did you end up renaming?

I have to say that despite being a fairly poor recording, the cabaret footage that does exist is first rate, both classy and a little raunchy. Everything HG didn't ever quite achieve in my eyes. What a shame more or better footage doesn't exist.
This week, I are be mostly watching Christmas movies
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Re: The Influence Of Two Choreographers On Each Other.

PattiForPM
In reply to this post by SuPaLu
SuPaLu wrote
I can find joy in appreciating the choreography and technique of the dancer with a bit of 'fire in the eyes',as Dominique Wood put it,rather than constant smiles to camera.
Choreographers and dancers are there to entertain.They may do it in very different ways but the final result is the same. i can find joy and fun in most dances.That's what it's all about in the end.
 I agree with a lot of what you say SuPaLu but I have to take issue with the smile vs fire comparison.  I think the difference for me is that Legs have range and HG are nearly all fire.  Smiling is only one of the many expressions you might see from the Legs ladies and it is this variation and wide range of dances which distinguishes the Troupes for me.  I can certainly admire the skill and appearance of HG and I like fire as much as the next man but to me HG say "Look at us" and Legs say "This is what I'm feeling today, do you feel it too?"  I know some of this is music-imposed in Legs' case but it is also down to a style of choreography and I love it.
Some Dancers who gave a good time, broke all the rules, played all the fools, yeah yeah yeah they blew our minds
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